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Reply. 6. There are three items to address: shocks, anti-roll bar, and adjustable trailing arms. forward bite and roll steer. Any of you guys changed any angles on trailing arms etc on a metric to make it faster? Rayburn of Rayburn Race Cars, a driver as well as a car builder, echoed much of what the other buiders had to say. AA-175-C). Putting the stock "W" style suspension into a bind is your biggest enemy. An anti-roll (or anti-sway) bar is most often used to preload a triangulated four-link. The upper arms are angled to form the triangle that gives the suspension its name. mounted 5 downwards to the front, coupled with 17 1/2 top links, The side bite trade off is a big one. when making this adjustment. Stop messing around using 1 nut from the local hardware store to make a weight jack mount. Stock trailing arm kit, used for mounting Ford 9 in GM metric car. MAXIMUM Performance right side climbing panhard mount for quick change rear ends. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Settle into your comfortable seat, enjoy sumptuous in-flight cuisine, stock up on last-minute duty-free items from the onboard store, and tune in to the in-flight entertainment system. Short links( from 3 to 4 shorter than the upper links) generally work If you have a Fox-body or SN95 Mustang, a 1980s GM G-body (Grand National, Malibu, El Camino, etc.) Wehrs Modified Valance Support. On the left, we have reduced the forward movement of For example, you want the top link to be perpendicular to the rear end housing and parallel to the car. On the left side, the bottom birdcages and mounted to You should pay close I hear of 305 cid stockers running in the high 1.40s far less hp I have adjustable qa1 shocks note the left rear tire moves to the front in body roll. The upper arms can be used to set the pinion angle by adjusting both arms in the same direction and by the same amount. path traveled by any trailing arm will affect roll steer. Has a 1/4 hole on bottom to allow bolting to your weight jack bolt. Simply replace the slug with different combination of offset slugs. BMS Racecars - Winning's not just a goal it's a tradition! Seems that more of an angle equals more traction bit, less angle (ie flatter) more stability in the turns and under braking. This produces quite a bit of rear steer to the right, moving the rear of the car to the right, just like when we used to throw the car sideways. BRACKET, CHASSIS PANHARD, BOLT ON 3 INCH OFFSET (PAIR). by comparing the different paths drawn on your model. This action will cause Wehrs Metric Trailing Arm Bolt. Dirt Late Model cars can be designed with a considerable degree of adjustment for rear steer. Indexing can improve driveability by keeping the race car flat in the This trailing arm bracket use common offset slugs (sold separately) to allow you to change the amount of lead or trail in the rear end. Improve the cornering capabilities of your race car with these new rear control arms and bushings from Speedway Motors. Compare the measurements to specifications. corners. Decrease LR Shock rebound and/or increase RF Shock compresion. In turn, that bite tends to move the car toward the left. Our services include: Bushing overhauls, suspension repairs . 4AN To for 8mm X 1.0 Metric Straight Adapter Vibrant. (Steel). the 60 in the low 50s have 505hp 350 460fpt car weight 3400 what is your take on the pinion angle? Lowering the car changes the sprung mounting points (body/chassis) but not the unsprung (axle) mounting points. Insert the bolts to the ends of the control arm Lower the jack from the transmission Tap the bolt into the control arm Raise the rear suspension to simulate ride height Torque the bolt to 95 foot-pounds Torque the bolt near the rear axle to 103 foot . This is a new bushing that is used in the upper & lower trailing arms to create sidebite and cushioning of the rear end. Mounting the left coil-over unit ahead of the axle If you run the frame side of the J-bar is higher . Perfect for the guys that already have or Extreme or Xtrmer Drop brackets. springs). Rear steer amounts-due to the Panhard bar angle-are regulated by the angle. This trailing arm bracket kit was designed to allow trailing arm angle adjustments just like what can be done on modifieds.. (Sold as a Pair) . Then, a 1" weld on the bottom inside of the left side." . 3 to 4 degrees nose-down is recommended. 2.50 from axle tube to center of hole. Trailing arm bushings come included (part No. Do I need to change my angles on my trailing arms to get forward bite? In more recent years, teams have been setting up the car so that the left side raises up quite a bit. We stated earlier that trailing arms mounted upwards to the front of One fix is to position the links so that the In a car with a non-triangulated four link, you can shorten the upper right trailing arm to increase the preload on the right rear tire. 2.5 drop trailing arm brackets slotted to accept offset slugs. lowered the bottom links to a level position and now the bottom of the The difference is that now we can maintain rear traction-having never broken loose-and the car is angled somewhat sideways, and pointed in the right direction to get off the corner. This promotes forward bite without causing the car to be tight on entry or in the middle of the turns. Cars with 15-inch wheels should have a measurement of 205mm (8.07") in front. This bracket is also built heavy, weigh 7.5lbs (with slugs) to help increase LR rear end weight. SEALS, FRONT TRAILING ARMS, SET OF 4 *GERMAN* STD BUG / THING / GHIA 1966-77. How to find roll centre in anti-dive or anti-squat double wishbone suspension, where upper and lower arms are at angle (side view)? Required fields are marked *. Below you'll find a selection of our flight destinations to spark your interest. Phone (07) 31033011 Between - 9:30am - 4:30pm. birdcages, to rotate against the shocks and springs during 2- 175-B upper mounts. of the To understand how a 4-link can be These trailing arms have fluted greasable, graphite/polyurethane bushings, which are superior to the stock rubber bushings. When selecting springs for your 4-link, you should can tighten overall corner handling by using Thanks so much! The content was subject to approval of A & A Manufacturing. When designing or very stiff. attention to how the lower link adjustments change the paths traveled by reducing loose roll steer. Kit includes required Custom length Double Adjustable upper control arms. Those conditions rarely exist on dirt. The live class took place January 22-23, 2022. To help understand the Instant Center you can visualize a triangle (Fig. KT-1B) makes removing a GM rear end from a GM Metric chassis much easier. Specialize in complete bushing overhauls and suspension upgrades to enhance the driving experience for your Mazda RX-7, Mazda RX-8, and Classic Mazdas (R100, RX-2, RX-3) but are more than capable of servicing all cars with the same care and attention to detail. (USRA/IMCA Stock Car Legal). (on a clamp bracket) generally tightens corner handling. Richards added that "if the driver has to countersteer the car a lot, you need more rear steer.". 3. wenee9w Pit Crew. The roll of the chassis and the movement of the Panhard bar are the two components that influence the amount of steer in these systems. . My trailing arms are stock triangulation. 4. 1 diameter x 11 long weight jack bolt. Emirates offers flights to Ho Chi Minh City (SGN) and 139 other destinations. That way, the car will stay as fast and balanced as it can be throughout all of the changing conditions. Photo courtesy of Hotchkis Suspension. We could reduce loose roll steer even further by combining the long Excess loading of either the left- or right-rear tires decreases traction in most cases. Under most current rules, there is no adjustment for amounts of rear steer with these systems. AA-175-D. suspension). Click here to remove banner ads from this forum. 4-link, wishbone, z-link or trailing arm type design are examples of geometry that affect anti-squat. He will be showing the latest tools to enhance your chassis set up. Part No. How Much is Too Much? loading of the rear tires. The adjuster is at the front of the bar. This will add Roll Steer as the chassis rolls over in the turn and the LR arm scribes an arc forward and shortens the left side wheel base. Up To 50% Off Prices EveryDay! Facebook; Twitter; Youtube; Pinterest; contact us . length and/or angle difference in the upper and lower links. coil-over units directly to the axle housing. Get your shocks addressed (tested by someone with a shock dyno who knows what theyre doing) and then go back and work on the pinion angle, using the guidelines from the article. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Part No. 2022 Racelogic Street Stock Class Workbook, 1-7 Getting Your Cross Member Where You Want It, 1-14 Camaro Drag Link vs Metric Drag Link. This induces less rear steer when the car squats on exit. There are four types of rear suspensions used in most dirt cars that are significant to study regarding rear steer. Most often, the factory trailing arms are simply a stamped metal arm. One of the reasons a car will test fast in practice, qualifying, and maybe the heat races, but then be out to lunch when the track changes come feature time, is a result of improper rear steer. Notice how this As a result, the springs and Big Chevy Impala and Caprice 1980 to 1994 casting number is 369056 for right side and 396055 for left side and if you can not locate these I can send you info on other substitutes. clamp brackets (since there's no longer any indexing of the Use this kit to build your own custom rear end. (Sold Individually). clamp brackets. the bottom of the That gray-colored bar that goes up from the forward trailing arm mount is an aftermarket mounting brace that ties the upper and lower mounting points together. Wehrs Modified Valance Support Weld On Clevis. roll steer are overly affected and handling becomes inconsistent. the race car enhance forward bite by using axle thrust to quicken the A downside to using the truck arms is not related to steering characteristics, but due to a narrow spring base when the springs are mounted directly on top of the truck arms, creating a narrow spring base in the rear. Decrease the Pre-Load on the Front Stabilizer Bar. Simply replace the slug with different combination of offset slugs. I highly recommend that if your wanting to run coil-overs or something of the sort or long travel that you use a 0 degree dual pivot trailing arm i use it in the designing of all my frames and i think its better for more wheel travel. See all 6 photos. Rear steer in this system is caused by chassis movement, which can . Flying from Ho Chi Minh is hassle-free and convenient when you book with Cathay Pacific. This condition will cause loose handling-especially 60 offset new reproduction stamping Ford 9 housing with new 3 tubes and GN hub type snouts. just ordered the adjustable lowers you will speed up your learning process by working with a model. I want just for street use, nothing but just Soft Ride, floating kind of .. What is wrong ? all the best parts. If you want to insert bushings with a press rather than a mallet, opt for part No. This Spring Cup is extended to hold the spring while the chassis hikes for Northern Sport Mods and Limited Mods. Realize that you can increase forward bite on any type of rear Browse Suspension Parts, . clamp brackets and ahead of the axle can improve forward bite on All we had to do now was work on consistency. bottom links further as shown in illustration 2C. handling condition that negates the benefits of the forward bite gained chassis. suspension. Everything needs to be free to move or you will chase crazy problems and never figure it out. you to better understand the 4-link suspension. "High left-rear loading does not increase traction," he said. Part No. Increase All Shocks rebound and compression, but rebound should always be higher than compression. It comes with all the pieces necessary for you to start saving time and energy, and it wont break the piggy bank. - Trailing Arm Brackets - Bushings in Upper Mounts - Brake Caliper Mounts (GM Metric) . priority to have the trailing arm brackets and top link hardware to be located in the proper location. I do have a few questions though: Are you running the car with an Anti Roll Bar or at the least, with a sway bar on the back? There are limits to how far we go in steering the car this way. Order your Trailing Arm 2 Piece Set - today at 1AAuto.com. A & A Manufacturing makes a similar trailing arm mounting kit for racers using Ford 9 rear ends in GM Metric chassis (part No. Currently my model has: * the lower control arm is angled up from ball joint to pivot at 4.1 degrees. AA-621-C is an offset spring cup, which sits 2-1/2 off center of a 3 axle tube $14.95. (USRA/IMCA Stock Car Legal). All driving train actually repalced with Moog components.. * upper control arm angled down from ball joint to pivot at 1.4 degrees. Bad shocks (and/or messed up valving) can be the culprit. Semi-trailing arm suspension, handling and stability performance, non-linear vehicle model, Bees algorithm Date received: 17 November 2011; accepted: 3 February 2012 Introduction Leaf-Spring Systems - The leaf-spring rear suspension system locates the rear-end fore and aft, as well as laterally using the leafs. The first element to understand about rear steer is that it is caused by rear suspension movement. The significance of this, for the purpose of this article, is that the chassis travel in a Z-link is enhanced compared to the 4-link suspension when using the same installed spring rate, and this causes quite a bit of chassis travel and related rear steer. 1-15 How Important is it to Bump the Left Front? You can play with all of these a little to work on plunge/roll steer. move the A 4-link This will give you a lower rear roll center and aide side bite. The layout, lengths, and angles of the upper A-Arm work together with Lower Control Arm to encompass what engineers refer to as an Instant Center. Check Tire temps, if LF is coolest (unbalanced setup): Decrease front springs, maybe even use reverse split (LF stiffer). With stock brackets on . Keep in mind that trailing arm angles can become excessive if the rear of the chassis lifts a lot during acceleration. On asphalt, do not make large changes to components that influence rear steer. birdcage to move forward more during chassis roll than in My car had 7Deg of angle it. The condition is referred to as Condition: New. This bolt on upper trailing arm mount is designed to allow use of a quick change into a stock GM metric chassis. One theory related to having the attitude of the car sideways involves the use of the aerodynamic aspects of the car. Currently 4/5 Stars (1) Description: In Stock Item #: 131-129. PCE Midnight Series Entertainment - a quality range of Industry Commando / Ceeform Plugs and Sockets widely used in the live events, film, TV and theatrical industries. Made out of 1/2 thick steel to gain extra LR weight. The car was set up and driven more like an asphalt car and it was fast. New info from @Fabman on RLCA angle: 3 to 5 degrees downward slope . Mike Kojima says: July 15, 2019 at 4:38 pm . Rear steer can either tighten a car or make it very loose. The separate rod end spacers act as bushings that allow the arms to fit inside the factory trailing arm pockets. If its working correctly, a G Body will drag the back bumper on the track with those pieces, on small drag radials. He uses his knowledge as a racer to continue to innovate his chassis designs. on rough race tracks. Instead of using some form of track locator or Watts linkage, the trailing arm triangluation keeps the rear end properly located in the car. with the very soft chassis meaning floppy front subframe is 4.5 enough? 60 MAXIMUM aftermarket Ford 9 housing with new 3 OD tubes and 2.5 GN hub snouts. This was encouraging. . On extremely dry, slick conditions, use lots of rear steer to the right. I like to see a 1" long weld on the top inside of the right side. In this case, that equates to a 10.80. loose roll steer. LATE MODEL SUSPENSION FRONT-REAR; LATE MODEL DRIVELINE-WHEELS; . I am going to raise the car next to achieve ideal front lower control arm angle (still to low for that) then corner balance and tweak from there. AA-384-B and AA-384-C), made from 3/16-thick steel, sit on the back of the lower trailing arm mounts. right side link is from 3 to 5 higher than the left when the chassis AA-175-D. forward(L.S.) birdcage now moves rearward (until the link reaches a level The four holes for adjusting the lower trailing arm angle are all symmetrical, so when you move the trailing arm up or down it does not change the wheelbase of the car, said Tom Nolff, of T&D Custom Fabrication in Grant, Michigan. Trailing arms must also be running forward at the correct car builder design angle. These are BMR upper trailing arms for 1979-2001 Mustangs. There is also steer to the left using this system, and because of the width of the front mounts of the lower-controlling links, rear steer can be considerable. Adjustable arms allow easy rear suspension . 266. the race car upon corner entry -especially when both coil-over units are That helps equalize traction to the rear tires. Distance from link mounts to transmission output and 3'rd yoke will dictate mount position. The length of the bottom links are dependent on the roll steer and clamp brackets to mount the left coil-over unit ahead of the axle LR bracket is 7 from axle tube to center of bottom hole, but still conforms to the 7.5 max length rules. 2-4 Offset Bushings and Trailing Arms. Not only does the condition of rear steer affect the entry and middle handling balance, it affects handling under acceleration due to the thrust angle of the rear end being either right or left of the centerline of the car. Adjustable 73 - 77 . Justin is the owner of High Roller Race Cars. (and tire) are forced towards the race track. Dave's Tip - "You should always tack weld them in place. The 4-link is a relatively complex rear suspension that is very The upper arms is where many very in opinion. Specifically designed to increase LR drive off the corner and corner entry adjustability with multiple hole adjustments on the RR. Tack weld the slugs to secure them to the trailing arm. Assembly includes: 2.5 MAXIMUM GN hubs, hub bearings, seals, brake rotor, drive flange, axles and all hardware necessary. The RR lower most will run level. Their offerings include rod ends, spacers, bushings, clamps, brackets, and mounting hardware for a number of items, from shocks, to brakes, to fuel cells. Since then, hes been a columnist, writer, and photographer, in racing and in mainstream media, for several outlets, including the Journal Inquirer, Boston Herald, Stock Car Racing, and Speedway Illustrated. have qa1 adjustable coil over shocks without the coil have a tube welded across the frame at the back to mount the shocks like a ladder bar It has been a practice for teams to align the rear end-and/or have it steer slightly to the right-to fix a tight mid-corner condition, but this goes into the category of crutches, and should not be necessary if the car is set up properly otherwise. When you find the correct amount of rear steer, stay there and tune the handling with the other components. two factors. Raise the Rear Panhard Bar Up on both sides. Now on to getting everything adjusted out and working. 87 Chevy C10 upper control arms. The GM Metric adjustable rear trailing arms will aid in adjusting pinion angle, centering the rear end and adjusting wheel base. coil-over units on Adjustable lower bars are used to center the tires front to back in the wheel well and to make small wheelbase changes. Its on a car that Im helping with. This bracket is also built heavy, weighs 7.5lbs (with slugs) to help increase LR rear end weight. Increase the Angle of the Upper Trailing Arm. When racing on dirt, watch the conditions and be prepared to make changes accordingly, not just to the setup, but also related to rear steer. My lower trailing arm is level. Since we cannot lump them together, we will analyze them separately. 1-1/2 Tube Diameter Clamp For Limit Chains on Chassis Side, 1-3/4 Tube Diameter Clamp For Limit Chains on Chassis Side. "Rear steer is important in any design of dirt car." In dirt racing, it may be advantageous to incorporate a large amount of rear steer under certain conditions. I will post as I no longer race, the biggest thing is the angle of the upper and lower control arms in the rear, you need to understand roll center and instant center to be able to adjust it correctly. Replacing the worn out rear trailing arms and bushings will reduce wheel hop and axle wrap that occurs during racing. 2,224. Black & Red PCE 16A Coupler (400Volt, 3P+E Pin Configuration) 16A Lead Coupler with a current rating of 16, a voltage rating of 400 and a 3P+E pin This induces rear steer when the car squats on exit. If the upper links are shorter than 17", the lower Avoid these types of trailing arms for drag racing. If excessive, loose roll steer can cause a loose Looking for that edge over everyone else. Cf: a c t i v i t . suspension moves. Another option are the double adjustable UMI upper and lowers available at Summit Racing (Part Number 402717-B or 402717-R). In the past, drivers would set up the car for exit off the corners, throwing the car sideways by breaking the rear tires loose. Increase the Split in the Panhard Bar Heights. There can be a small amount of rear steer as the chassis rolls and squats, but it is both minimal and mostly fixed as far as adjustability. A rear end steered to the left of centerline will cause the thrust angle to be left of centerline and make the car tighter on entry and tighter on exit under acceleration. shortening the lower links, is a reduction in loose roll steer. try to drive underneath the chassis as the rear axle pushes the race car Ground clearance at bump and uptravel at ride height will dictate link angle. Clamp brackets are sometimes used on short, slick tracks to improve That saved the factory some money. Fox80. The company offers a wide array of quality chassis components at reasonable prices. 3. Adjust the pinion angle. The One disadvantage is pointed out by Masters. On cars with triangulated upper control arms, you cant set preload with adjustable arms. You can evaluate the roll steer characteristics of different set-ups When the track goes slick, especially dry slick, rear steer is needed. With adjustable trailing arms (rather than the factory originals), you can adjust the pinion angle by simply changing the length of the upper trailing arm. Your DS length will dictate your lower link length. If you dont do anythinig else. Spring Perchs & Brake Caliper Brackets are now Bolt-On Accessories (not included in Rear End Housing Price). are used to help control loose steer. Tack weld these washers to the outer flange of your bushing to create a retainer for the rubber. AA-621-D is a clamp-on spring cup, fitting 3 tubing $24.95. We can relate 1/8-mile e.t. suspension bump (compression) movement. A level panhard bar ( same mounting height on both sides) means force is vectored laterally to the tires. If not, no amount of adjustment will get the thing down the track properly. Indexing is greatest when there is a lot of Remove only one control arm at a time. If you are racing on a rough track or up against the cushion you will need these bushing washers to help hold the rubber from pushing out the end of the bushing housing. position) instead of forward as in illustrations 2A and 2B. Tack weld the slugs to secure them to the trailing arm. Brand new Stamped steel, C-channel arms are strong and sturdy Improve the handling of your '78-'88 GM Metric rear suspension by replacing twisted or worn out rear control arms 11" center to center Sold each IMCA Approved. best for tight, flat race tracks or on any track where the chassis tends Description : General Motors 64-67 "A-Body" Adjustable/Indestructible Rear Control Arm Upper Cross Member! shocks and springs. of a 4 link suspension are the link lengths designed into the suspension Lower the front LR trailing arm mount. Rear steer in a circle track race car is a condition caused by suspension movement. If you have a Fox-body or SN95 Mustang, a 1980s GM G-body (Grand National, Malibu, El Camino, etc.) suspension by angling the trailing arms upward toward the front of the Followed your advice and got a set of adjustable lowers. Depending on the angles of the trailing arms or bars, each rear wheel can be made to move to the front or rear. You should keep in mind that any loading of the rear tires caused by This will add Roll Steer as the chassis rolls over in the turn and the LR arm scribes an arc forward and shortens the left side wheel base. Has a 1/4 hole on bottom to allow bolting to your weight jack bolt. Skip to main content. If you lengthen the same bar, more load is placed on the left rear tire. Balance the Front and Rear stiffness. The bar essentially controls weight shift from side to side, preventing the body from rotating on the launch. The Metric 4-Link System - The metric 4-link is a widely used system that comes with some models of stock automobiles. Large 1 NPT fill plug installed for easy filling or connecting to fill tank. birdcages (and the rear tires) rearward on the right side and A 200-pound spring in a Z-link car feels more like a 4-link car, where the coilover is mounted to a birdcage with a 100-pound spring installed. made to provide such handling, you must first understand a few basics For more than 50 years, A & A Manufacturing has worked closely with racers and chassis fabricators. 2023 Physics Forums, All Rights Reserved, Car lift using suspensions as lift points, Calculation of the reduced stiffness of a simple suspension, Suspension location for suspension pedestal, Bearing race diameter inequality question. A/C Condenser APDI 7013457 fits 2006 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Mevotech TTX Front Lower Suspension Ball Joint for 1998-2018 Subaru Forester vc. Kit includes standard 55 GN hubs, hub bearings, seals, brake rotor, drive flange, 31 spline solid axles and all hardware necessary. He uses his knowledge as a racer to continue to innovate his chassis designs. Raise the front LR trailing arm mount. Looking for some help / opinions on the optimum lower control arm angle for 05+. If you need brake brackets, A & A Manufacturing manufactures both GM Metric caliper mounts (part numbers starting with AA-113) and big GM mounts (part numbers starting with AA-049), with pricing ranging from $9.82 to $15.84 per bracket. We've Also pinion angle with stock bushings. This configuration is common in General Motors cars built in and around . Designed for stock cars with a 7.5 max trailing arm length. This saves wear and tear on your U-joints while . The trailing arms can be mounted parallel to the centerline of the car, or angled with the front mounts closer to centerline. . If both sides are configured to move in opposite directions, then rear steer can be extreme. SKU: 64-67ABox. Decrease Upper Control Arm Angle on the Rearend. A rear end that is steered to the right of centerline causes the thrust angle to be pointed to the right of centerline and makes the car loose on entry and loose on exit under acceleration. birdcage forward during chassis roll more than the longer links in Soft springs, a left chassis-mounted track bar, and easy-up shocks on the left side all promote the body roll that produces rear steer to the right. It comes with a locking bolt to tighten the bushing. The A & A Manufacturing stock trailing arm mounting kit (part No. 60 offset new reproduction stamping Ford 9 housing with new 3 tubes and GN hub type snouts. Rayburn builds the swing-arm type of rear suspension. KT-1B) sells for $96.00. Here is how each system functions and how they can be adjusted for the "degree" of rear steer. change of 5 can make a noticeable change to handling. $64.00. I am looking for a bit more traction and less wheel spin, but primarly want better handling for road . His company has experimented with dirt track aero in the past. The length of the upper links should be at least 17" . Welcome to J-AUTO! These arms also use rod ends on each end to prevent binding when under load. The RR lower most will run . Trailing Arms, Mono Balls and Mounting Brackets; Rod Ends, Clevis & Spacers; Safety Equipment. Most of the Z-link systems utilize a spring mounting system that attaches the coilover spring to the front link.